Thursday, December 18, 2014

Constitional Right to Kill?

I had the Guest Comment in the CNR today. Go have a look at it here.

I struggle whether to allow Anonymous comments on this blog. This thing serves as a place for me to kind of informally wrestle with a few ideas or concepts. A place to write and keep the thoughts flowing. When I have written about a few controversial items in the past, the Anonymous posters sometimes can be unkind. I love debate, in fact, I encourage it. But the nastiness of a Pothead who thinks he is about to lose access to his Precious, as has happened with a few posts--well, that caused me to do away with the Anonymous posts until after the election.

And then there was the post that I wrote about The Demise of Backpacking. The lightweight backpacking crowd got a hold of it and weren't too pleased with that opinion.

After the election, I decided to keep the Anonymous feature, but to moderate the responses. A happy medium.

On a couple of posts about the end of coyote killing contests, an Anonymous poster writes in (go ahead and read the posts) twice to proclaim how hunters are going to have the hunt in Adin anyway and that interest is high in the event. He (and only a he would be so belligerent) insinuates that more coyotes will be killed now more than ever. Just so you don't have to go read the posts, here they are:

Here they are:

This year's coyote "event" will be larger and more successful than in years past.
The only difference is that there will be no prizes awarded, as per recently enacted California regulations.

It was a big mistake to try to ban this event, all you accomplished was to bring hunters together in solidarity.

There are already more interested participants than in last years event.


And the other one:

The hunt has not stopped, only the prizes.It is no longer a "contest" it's a constitutionally protected right to assemble.
It's gathering even more momentum than in years past as a show of solidarity amongst hunters.
Happy trails... ; )

So these hunters think they have a Constitutional  Right to kill as many coyotes as possible. What they don't get is that California is having a reappraisal of the role of predators in the environment. As such, we can probably expect more reforms, including a hunting season and probable bag and possession limits. Or perhaps a ban altogether, just like we have with the mountain lion.

Note that this gentleman gives an argument that is not based on wildlife science. This is more of a lifestyle argument. An appeal to baser instincts, as hunters come together to kill as many creatures as possible. I doubt that real hunters care for killing contests. The guy who wrote the lines above displays the attitude that killed off the bison and the passenger pigeon. It is despicable and reminds me just how awful some people are.

So does the Anonymous poster have some inside knowledge of the Adin Hunt? Or is he just yanking my chain? I don't know. I do know that he seems a bit unstable and hateful. And I'm not too happy to have this person focused on me.


  1. As stated above, you claim to "Love Debate", well, let's see if that's really true.

    Let's start with this.
    The photo you have at the top of this page?
    Nobody gave either you nor Camilla Fox permission to use it, yet both of you have used it to further your emotional cause.
    I've seen my photo all over the web, so I'll concede potential copyright infringement issues.

    "A Constitutional Right To Kill"

    You took that statement out of context as I was stating that the hunter's gathering in Adin will now instead of being a "contest" be an "assembly" and at last recollection every single American has the right to assemble as put forth by the first amendment of the U.S, Constitution including legal coyote hunters.

    You then mention the protection of the California mountain and in the very next sentence say this...

    "Note that this gentleman gives an argument that is not based on wildlife science."

    Californians passed proposition 117 fully protecting the lion on complete and utter emotion, the fact that wildlife can be managed by the a ballot measure and a completely ignorant populous is simply outrageous, to tie the hands of scientifically trained biologists who's life study is the healthy balance of wildlife and diverse ecosystems in this state and instead, allow untrained emotional manipulation of a precious resource is a recipe for disaster.
    The mountain lion protection measure, of which you seem to be so proud of had absolutely zero scientific data supporting it,
    In fact more lions have been killed on depredation permits since 1990 than would have been killed on legally proposed hunting licenses, (the Ca. dept of fish & wildlife has conveniently removed those statistics from their website) and instead of a hunter utilizing those cats they are incinerated or buried, what a waste.

    Your juxtaposition regarding the plight of the Passenger Pigeon and the American Bison in relation to modern sport hunters are beyond factually inaccurate.

    The tragic loss of both the passenger pigeon and American Bison as species were the results of unregulated market hunting, decades before North American wildlife agencies instituted a healthy, sustainable management plan for our treasured wildlife species known as The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.

    Since the inception of this plan. all wildlife in this country has not only, survived, it has flourished, with game populations in far better shape than they were even 100 years ago.
    Under this management plan NO sport hunted species has suffered extinction, so that comparison is very poorly chosen.

    I have extensively researched this debate regarding coyote hunting and find that over and over anti hunters make the claim that hunting coyote populations actually increases their populations since the dominant pairs are removed it allows subordinates to breed, thus exacerbating the problem of increased coyote populations.
    With this biological data, the disdain for hunting coyotes must certainly not be based on a premise that hunting is endangering their population....correct?

    Regarding my knowledge of the hunt?
    Yes is the answer to your question.

    Your anti-hunting forces were successful in banning hunting contests for prizes in California.
    There is no longer an " Adin Coyote Drive" as in years past.

    What there is now is simply a pre and post hunt "assembly" (which again IS a constitutionally protected right) on private property where local hunters can "assemble" after engaging in a
    perfectly legal activity and share their successes and adventures of that particular weekend.

    BTW, There will be no cameras allowed!

    You have nothing to fear Allan, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't paint me as "unstable and hateful".
    (Please post this as I excitedly accept your offer to debate these issues)



  2. I really don't think there is much of a debate to be had here. Still, if you would come out from under the bushes and state who you are, I'd be much more willing to participate. Go on the record.